T-24-003 : Christina Perla - Industrial Designer to On Demand Manufacturing
You're listening to TRADEOFS, a podcast about the trials and tribulations of designing and manufacturing hardware. Each month, we sit down with founders, engineers, and other hardware professionals to understand the trade offs inherent in building a business that makes physical products. I'm Nate Padgett, hardware community guy and founder of Informal, a freelance collective that helps companies build and ship world class hardware.
Chris:And I'm Chris Rill, startup founder, engineer, and fractional CTO, where I help hardware and software companies build and scale their products. TRADEOFFS captures the best of these conversations so you can learn about the skill sets needed to successfully bring physical products to market.
Nate:Today, we welcome Christina Perla to the show. Christina is the cofounder and CEO of MakeLab, an on demand three d printing service in New York City, where Chris and I got our start in the hardware startup world. She's a super inspiring entrepreneur and my coorganizer of New York Hardware Meetup. This was a really fun conversation for the three of us to record. So let's dive right in.
Nate:Hey, Christina. How you doing? Hey. Can you tell us where you're calling in from and then talk a little bit about MakeLab?
Christina:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So I'm Christina, cofounder and CEO of MakeLab. We three d print parts for hardware businesses and basically any business or company brand that makes physical products.
Christina:And so we dabble in the polymer space, powders, resins, and plastics. And calling in from Brooklyn. Although we did just open up a second location Whoo. In San Francisco, Innate Spot Studio fifty five.
Nate:Yeah. Brand new spot in SoMa, brand new make lab. Very exciting.
Christina:Yes.
Nate:And and I don't think you and Chris have met, really, have you?
Christina:I don't think so.
Chris:I don't think so. I used to coorganize the hardware meetup, cofounded a company called Canary in New York City. Oh. I was at the first seven hardware meetups in New York, and then things got real busy for us at Canary. And then Nate kinda made it his thing.
Nate:I think I've done a pretty good job of keeping it going, thanks to Christina and others.
Christina:That's, like, such an understatement, though. A pretty good job. Too humble. You're you're way
Chris:too humble. Is. I would say for a long time, no one was owning the organization aspect of it, and the hardware unit continues to exist at the quality that it does because of you, Nate. Oh, thanks.
Christina:I agree.
Nate:Yeah. Well, maybe just... Christina, can you walk us through how you kinda got exposed to hardware and physical products? How'd you get into it?
Christina:So my background's in industrial design. I went to Pratt. Graduated in 2014. Started working at Converse for a little bit in the accessories design department. Wasn't a fan of corporate life.
Christina:You know? I I tell this story often, and nothing against corporate life, but, like, it just wasn't my thing. I think when you have a pump up playlist, you know, like you do to go out except for work every day, that's not a great sign.
Chris:Wait. Wait. Hold on. Hold on. You need to unpack that.
Chris:This is in the corporate environment?
Christina:No. I had one to listen to on the train so that I could, like, get through the day. You know what I mean?
Chris:I thought this was something that, like, the company did. Like, HR was like, you know what we need for morale? A play. I would have
Christina:been out so much sooner if that was the case. That's just such a red flag.
Nate:Yeah. That sounds extremely dystopian.
Christina:Yeah. Yeah. And so after Converse, I was looking for jobs. I got in touch with an old professor who was in both fashion and ID. And so she worked at Fila, actually with Manny, who's my co founder.
Christina:She was starting up a wearable tech design firm, and I was like one of the first, you know, four industrial designers there. And, you know, I was pretty into it for a while. I loved, like, being more involved. I loved being more hands on and, like, being closer to what I was doing and understanding the effect. But I got that itch again, and I'm like, okay.
Christina:Something's wrong. The pump up playlist came back, and I'm like, I think this is a me problem. You know? I see a pattern. I was, like, 23, 24 at the time, and I thought, you know, I'm gonna go try entrepreneurship.
Christina:And if I fail, I think I'm young enough where I can just bounce back into the workforce as an industrial designer, and I'll be okay. But I had this nagging feeling I had to do it or I'd forget not trying.
Nate:So cool that you felt that and you felt sure enough in your own abilities to do that at that age because I spent my entire twenties being like, god. I wanna start a company. What is wrong with me? I haven't done it yet. Ben Kaufman was, like, perennially 24 years old the entire time I was there, but I never did it because I never really was like, I'm ready.
Nate:It took basically, like
Christina:Yeah.
Nate:Another startup going bust for me to be like, I'm never doing that again. I'm gonna try to do my own thing now.
Christina:Sometimes that's what it takes. Right? Like, you don't know what you got until you see it, you're like, oh, I could do it better in so many ways. And sometimes that's what gives you the confidence to actually do it. You know, if you're young and you're entrepreneurial, sometimes it works out if you go in completely naive because you still have the energy and you don't know what's ahead.
Christina:And so I think if I had known all the challenges, I I would be more hesitant.
Chris:I feel like every entrepreneur has the moment where they look back and they go, oh, wait a minute. I got this completely wrong. Is there a moment that stands out for you where, like, your worldview of entrepreneurship being like, oh, I could do this to being like, oh, man. Maybe I can't do this.
Christina:Yeah. I I, like, I have a pit in my stomach thinking about it like that. So we had a big client come in, like, maybe six months in. And it's funny because this really does circle back to, I think, the first time I've maybe spoken to Nate over email. But this big client was Verizon.
Christina:They had a brand called Oath, which was the the brand that handled the brands. And so they came to us with these beautiful PDFs and said, can you make 12 orbs, like colorful ball things, 12 inches in diameter? And they asked us, can you three d print this? And we need, like, I think 32 sets in a year's time. And we were like, oh my gosh.
Christina:This is it. This is how we're gonna get off the ground. This is gonna give us so much profit that we can just, like, grow the company a little bit more. It was challenging because we did, full color sandstone, which is a really fragile material for three d printing. It's powder gypsum based.
Christina:We did a lot of finishing work, so we did a lot of sanding. Like, we had to set up a whole shop, and we we had upfront costs to do so. And then they basically pulled out of the contract for sets in, And we had hard costs. We had a whole setup. We had revenue that we were betting on, checks that were late because corporates, you know, sixty day payout sometimes.
Christina:And it it was like an oh shit moment. But at the same time, that was the most pivotal moment in that we were like, okay. We need to do what works, and we need to figure this shit out. Otherwise, we're going to go out of business. And we are like, we have to three x.
Christina:Otherwise, this is not gonna work. And then we did that the next year. So it ended up being a good thing, but it was very, very, very difficult.
Chris:So That's a good lesson to learn early on in the trajectory of the company.
Christina:Yeah. It is. Don't put your eggs in one basket. That was the lesson learned. It was like, just don't bend that much for one big client.
Christina:It's too risky.
Nate:What was, like, the first hardware product you made and you shipped? And was there anything about that first experience that stuck with you? And and not starting the company, but, like, building a hardware product, right, and, like, manifesting something tangible from an idea? I would say converse. I I don't know
Christina:if bags, like, count as hardware. If you think of hardware as anything, not software, then it could count. But as an intern at Converse, I I designed, like, a bag line for Target. And so it needed to be cheaper. It needed to be, like, you know, for the masses.
Christina:And so communicating with Chinese factories with preexisting relationships for Converse, that was pretty cool being, like, I don't know how old. It '21 or something. I learned a lot about... You know, it was a lot of, like, send revisions, get the sample back. Send send revisions, get the sample back.
Christina:So it was a little bit more removed than your more status quo hardware journey. But it was very interesting dealing with a language barrier and dealing with a manufacturer that, you know, doesn't care as much as you do. And so I learned a lot about communication and and communication tools, like tech packs and how how to be specific in certain things and how to be more vague and some other things and and that balance.
Chris:And in terms of quantity, what was the initial production run for those bags? Are we talking, like, tens of thousands? Or
Christina:Yeah. They were in all the targets. Like, I I saw one, like, months later. So it was on its own Converse stand. It was a big Converse partnership.
Christina:Of course, like, no one told me that, and they were just like, design a bag. So I didn't really realize until much later how big that was, but it was pretty cool.
Nate:Well... And you were saying, like, if it's not software, maybe it can count as hardware. I think you highlighted, like, the most hardware experience ever. Right? And that is coordinating all these vendors and all these disparate pieces in order to produce this product.
Nate:And I say this all the time at Hardware Meetup. I think it's kind of the great unifying thing. It doesn't need to have electronics. It doesn't need to have embedded software. You're shipping things around the world, and you're coordinating a cross functional team unlike most other businesses or other tech businesses, I guess.
Nate:Mhmm. Mhmm. So I totally think that's a relevant story. Yeah.
Christina:It was totally cool to see being so young. It was like a two person team. And so my manager was cc'd on all the emails, but I was doing a lot of the communication and a lot of the revisions and and whatnot with her guidance, but it was me.
Nate:That's amazing. Right? And really in a position where you're coordinating and having to, like, deal with people and deadlines. And you're a pretty, like, operational person, like, working with you. I know, like, how...
Nate:Did did that kinda develop through that experience, or was it always just kinda your nature?
Christina:I've always been like that. Like, going back to, like, the group project in high school or college, like, you know, I always had a leadership streak. In high school, I did a lot of leadership things. You know, I did dance and cheerleading, and so there was this opportunity to, like, lead a dance that you had to choreograph, get the costumes, get the sign ups, and then you had to compete and, like, all these logistics. And so I did that for two years, and that taught me a lot about, like, running around and getting stuff done.
Nate:Love that. I did not know that about you. Cheerleading and dancing was actually not something I expected you to say
Chris:you did in high school.
Christina:Really? Some people say that it makes total sense because I'm always, like, cheery.
Chris:Yeah. Well, see, I I thought drama energy about you that is definitely cheer centric.
Christina:I hated competition cheerleading, though. Like, I could not make the faces. I could not, like, do all that stuff. Like, I was good at dancing, so they put me in front for a lot of things and then put me in the back when I had to, like, make a face because I couldn't make the face.
Chris:So here's a random question. What about cheer and dance has informed your experience at MakeLab?
Christina:It's an interesting question. I think the leadership aspect is a big one and teamwork, you know, and cheer, like when you're lifting and throwing girls in the air, like you got to coordinate Someone's life is on the line. Like, you have to catch them at the same time. You have to be equal force. Like, it doesn't matter if you're stronger.
Christina:It's very team centric. And so I think that's that's helped me. And then I think also there's something about presentation, you know, like how you show up. And so being in... Being very performance based when I was younger, I feel like just teaches you that.
Christina:And so it kinda primed me for for this. I'm not... I don't get stage fright.
Chris:Well, the, the Pump Up playlist certainly plays a huge part. Now now I understand the genesis for that.
Christina:Yeah. You just gotta get in the zone. You know? Like, half of showing up is just getting in the right headspace. And so, music definitely plays a big part in that.
Chris:What's your go to song? Or what has been your go to song?
Christina:Oh, man. So I've been... I... I'm I'm a big Beyonce fan. Like, I love Beyonce.
Christina:She is so inspiring just as a performer, a leader, a business person. She works incredibly hard, and her music really... I I don't know. I really like it. I resonate with it.
Christina:So I liked her album, the self titled album, and then I really like Cowboy Carter as well. I'm, like, mentally prepping for the Cowboy Carter tour. I'm like, where do I get
Nate:Oh.
Christina:Western things?
Nate:Oh, man. Are tickets already on sale?
Christina:They're not on sale. They're probably... It'll probably happen next year, but
Nate:Oh, man.
Christina:I'm just warning everybody around me.
Nate:Oh, yeah. Get ready.
Christina:You know the whole, like, six degrees of knowing somebody? Like, Kevin Bacon, six degrees? I've gotten second degree, like, twice now.
Nate:Yeah. Is it, like, professional contacts, family? Like, what is... What are you finding the ends from?
Christina:Professional. Professional.
Nate:Yeah.
Christina:There's a founder in the shoe industry. He used to work at Parkwood Entertainment, her company. And so he was like, yeah. She came into the office every day. She hustled.
Christina:She rolled up her sleeves and got got things done.
Nate:Wow. Cool.
Christina:And then there's someone else that is a model type. He was a client. He needed something for her Halloween party
Nate:Wow. Very cool.
Christina:In New York.
Chris:I have a second degree to Beyonce too, not to start name dropping. Cool. I'm fairly certain that my connection helped do security for Beyonce.
Nate:Of course, it would be security related. Chris is, like, very deep in the security world.
Chris:Of course. Well, this is a different kind of security, but but, yes, her security detail.
Christina:Nice. Nice. That's awesome.
Nate:So, Christina, was it Converse then Mayclab? Was that how it went?
Christina:So after I left Interwoven, the wearable tech design firm, I started to freelance a bunch. And then Mandy and I joined together, and we created a company called Tangent. We thought we were gonna build a design firm, and we ended up buying our vendor, acquiring our vendor. It was really small, so it sounds much bigger than it is, but we went through that whole process. And that's what turned into MakeLab.
Christina:And we don't do design anymore.
Chris:What was the reason for acquiring? I mean, it seems like a pretty large transaction. Not necessarily large transaction in terms of perhaps money, but in terms of effort.
Christina:Yeah. No. It was. We thought that acquiring a ready to go, already revenue generating, small three d printing business, we thought it was gonna be a cash cow to the design firm. And so it provides steady revenue, steady income.
Christina:Can get things printed. We hire maybe one employee and just... That's it. And then in... And then to our surprise.
Chris:Well, I would love to actually dig into the details. Like, the thing right now is acquiring cash flow steady businesses for nothing down and revenue basically pay off the prior owner with revenue. What was the transaction like in terms of how you structured the deal to acquire the company?
Christina:It wasn't that We we paid we paid most down. The original owner was moving to China. They had visa issues, but they also had a lot of family in China. So that's what it was. But the one thing that stood out to us was, like, their focus on the customer experience and their service, really, and we're like, we wanna keep that going.
Christina:But... Yeah. I mean, the idea came from a text on a Sunday night in January, and the transaction was finalized in mid April. And so there was some due diligence. There was lawyers involved.
Christina:Our accountant at the time was involved. You know, how do you value all the assets and the customer list and the domain and all that stuff? There was, like, about a week of training because I never operated a three d printer before, and Manny maybe did kind of. So it was a lot of newness, but we got the financial part done in, like, two weeks.
Nate:There is so much more to poke around in there.
Christina:Yeah. It was a it was a lot.
Chris:So perhaps the easiest question would be if you knew then what you know now, what would you have done differently?
Christina:I would have negotiated most of the machines out of the deal. I would have kept the website, the email, the workflow, all that stuff, the client list, because we had a client paying day one. And so it was really great in that regard. But the machines, the filament, all that stuff is honestly variable in terms of its value. And we ended up replacing most of it anyway over the years.
Christina:You know, machines phase out. And so I think that's something I would have done differently.
Nate:Because the... We have an unknown depreciation schedule for these things. Yeah.
Christina:Yeah. Everything was just pretty basic because, you know, the whole industry was really starting out back then. So
Nate:And you had never three d printed before. Manny had maybe three d printed before. This was your vendor who you would get prototypes made from. How did you then make the leap to, like, let's run these things?
Christina:Again, being naive at 25 or however old. I think
Nate:I was 20 at the time?
Christina:Around 40.
Nate:What's his excuse? No. I'm kidding.
Christina:He's always been like a a daredevil. Right? He's always been a risk taker. That's great. And so, actually, I told him I wanted to do...
Christina:Like, he talked about it months before the text message happened, but then when it came time to it and I got the text message, my gut was just bubbling. I was like, oh my gosh. We've gotta do this. And then he's like, are you sure? And I was like, yes.
Nate:That's basically how I felt about Studio fifty five. It was kinda the same thing. It was like, yes. It's gonna happen. You know?
Christina:Yeah.
Nate:Yeah. So wait. Wait. Wait. That's interesting.
Nate:So who's the riskier one? You or you or Manny?
Christina:I think it depends on which light. You know? He takes more of a design approach to it. I take more of a business approach approach to it, but we're both, like, risk takers. He'll, like, want to do something based off of gut a little bit more, whereas these days, I mean, I've I've learned a little bit, and so I wanna back it up a little bit more.
Christina:I'm, like, not opposed to anything, but it has to make sense.
Nate:Yeah. You wanna know where you're going. You've you've probably done the gut thing, and it not worked out enough times where you're like, let's measure a little.
Christina:Yeah. Exactly.
Chris:Is there an example of of, like, a recent decision you guys have made where perhaps you had to be more convincing?
Christina:I like wanna bring San Francisco into it, but we were both like, this is good because we reviewed the data together.
Chris:Well, actually, that's a great example because that seems like a really big decision. Right? So why San Francisco?
Christina:There's a few reasons. One is customer list. We have a lot of clients from California, specifically San Francisco. Like San Francisco, New York, they're like siblings in terms of hardware, tech, and startups. Another thing was community.
Christina:Right? Like, I'm plugged into New York Hardware. I've seen how many leads we get from this, like, how it impacts our client acquisition. I also see... I'm involved with IDSA as well, and they have presence in both San Francisco and New York as well.
Chris:What is IDSA?
Christina:Industrial Designer Society of America. And so industrial designers are... Make up a really big part of our client base. And so I became involved for marketing purposes. I'm involved with Women in Design here in New York.
Christina:And, you know, when you have enough buzz happening in an area, like if there's enough hardware stuff happening, if there's enough tech stuff happening, if there's enough startup stuff happening, it's usually a great indicator. And the thought of colocating with Nate, I mean, we already worked together really, really well, which derisked the relationship, and it was kind of a no brainer at that point.
Nate:And we had been talking about doing something similar for probably... Since the start of the studio.
Christina:Yeah. And so in terms of spreading out and being bicoastal, different time zones, having printers here, having printers there, and all this stuff, we're a lot more confident in our ability to deliver despite the, you know, chaos, I guess you can call it.
Nate:Well, you're also opening another location in Connecticut. Right?
Christina:Yes. That's a cost saving measure though, which is a little bit of a a no brainer as well. So that one's not gonna be client facing, but Connecticut is a great space to get space, and the network is very, very strong. And so we're looking into it quite deeply.
Chris:Where in Connecticut?
Christina:Between New Haven and Hartford is where we wanna be.
Nate:Can you talk about the strategy around Connecticut and multiple The
Christina:strategy is a hub and spoke model. I mean, like, something we found out from building up New York is that there's this local demand because local on demand means faster. It means if shit hits the fan, which in additive, it does. You know, in manufacturing, you just... You wanna be close to your supplier.
Christina:It aids with communication as well. Like, site visits give a lot of credibility and comfort. And so with MakeLab, we really wanna build out this hub and spoke model. Hubs being factories with a lot of machines where we print high quantity, longer lead times, and larger industrial parts, and spokes being labs where we move a little bit quicker. It's more client facing.
Christina:That's where we activate the location. And so having a factory on the East Coast really supplying Brooklyn and San Francisco, Ultimately, we want a West Coast factory as well, but we'll get there. We're we're still bootstrapped.
Chris:So are you going to keep your New York location and move a lot of the the tooling to Connecticut so you still have the lab in New York, but you have the factory in Connecticut?
Christina:Exactly. And so it makes sense from a cost perspective. I mean, to scale what we have in New York and to take up 6,400 square feet is is like
Chris:Everything in New York is more expensive.
Christina:Yeah. It's 9x. Yeah. It's 9x. So, you know, in thinking about acquiring more space, more machines, it doesn't make sense for New York to be the factory.
Christina:And then the other thing is available workforce. Connecticut's a bit of a manufacturing state, and so there's a lot more available workforce.
Chris:I want to say Stanley Black and Decker has an R and D facility, and there's a bunch of
Christina:Yes.
Chris:DoD companies in Central Connecticut. So I can understand where there's a nice fit, especially for customers, but also for the workforce.
Christina:Exactly. Exactly. You have Pratt and Whitney in Connecticut. You have the... I'm blanking on the name of the company that that manufacturers the helicopters and the ones that manufacture the boats and the submarines.
Chris:Sikorsky, I believe, is the one you're looking for.
Christina:And... Yeah.
Chris:Yes. Yeah. And then Groton is the naval base. I used to live in Connecticut.
Christina:So Oh, okay.
Nate:It's all
Chris:a trip down memory lane.
Christina:So, yeah, it's something we're we're heavily looking into. Nothing set yet, but hoping to do that this year.
Nate:Well... So... And I think that that's related to fundraising and investors and all those pieces. Can you can
Chris:you kinda Totally.
Nate:Walk us through what led you to wanna go down the venture route, what you learned from that experience, and how your strategy is different now?
Christina:Yeah. I mean, like, in terms of what we want to implement, nothing's changed. Like, we wanted to build a hub and spoke model then. We're implementing on it now. The vision, the mission, our core is is strong, if if not stronger.
Christina:And then with venture, I don't know if we knew too much going into it. I think that it was the thing to do. And it felt like, oh, well, if you wanna scale, you have to get venture, venture capital specifically. And so, you know, 2020, 2021, that was also the bubble when all of this was a very, very hot thing. Like everyone was getting funded left and right, and that was the milestone, not how many clients you had, not how much revenue, your profitability.
Christina:And so, you know, I think just being in that environment, like we thought, yeah, that's what we have to do. And so we actually signed a term sheet in December 2021, and that fund imploded on itself because they were signing term sheets ahead of them actually having the money. And it was a female focused fund as well, which was very disappointing. And so we, amongst other female founded companies, got completely screwed three months later.
Chris:So they embodied the fake it till you make it on the venture side?
Christina:They did. And apparently, that's a lot more common than you would think, which is very unfortunate for founders.
Chris:Do you think that that was a conscious decision, or did they just do a call to their limited partners and the checks never showed up?
Christina:I think that's what happened. I don't think it was a conscious decision.
Nate:Okay.
Christina:Like, they had a good mission. They had good hearts, but I just think that they should have waited. It's not a done deal until the money's in the bank.
Nate:Exactly. I was exactly gonna say that.
Chris:You're say that. That's so sad.
Christina:It is. It was, like, terrible. I remember feeling like a complete failure as a founder. Like, that's really tough. Like, you know, we started planning everything, and we started talking to our team about it.
Christina:Everyone was getting excited. So when this imploded on itself, it was really difficult as a founder to, like, be like, hey, this didn't work out. You know? There's so much judgment that you can face. Like, you're on the line for that.
Christina:Your your face, your name, your everything is on the hook. But I think things happen for a reason. I would say the first month I was just like, like, gotta figure out this business. How are we gonna do this? Okay.
Christina:Gotta change my hustle. Now I'm not doing 40 to 50 meetings a week, maybe sometimes 60. What am I doing? Okay. I gotta focus on the business.
Christina:Let's focus on client acquisition, and it's just a different speed.
Chris:So for clarity, when you say 50 or 60 meetings, you're talking about meetings a week with investors. Yeah. So you were not working on the business. You were working to raise money for the business.
Christina:Exactly.
Nate:Was it Manny and the team then then running it, or were you just never sleeping?
Christina:I didn't sleep very often because I still had to do some stuff, and so I would just do it on off hours and weekends. But Manny would pretty much, like, run the business in our employees.
Chris:I think what what folks don't appreciate about the fundraising process is it's your full time job, and that really does take away from your ability to operate the business because it is a completely different skill set.
Christina:It is. It is.
Nate:And I guess, like,
Chris:what would you say was the impact of that? Right? I'm guessing it's a multi month process. Right? Yeah.
Chris:Because this podcast is all about trade offs. Right? If the trade off was that you weren't going to go and raise money and just focus on the business, what do you think that lost time could have, you know, been focusing your energy on the business?
Christina:I mean, it could have been what I'm doing now, which is just, like, focusing on community, like, FaceTime with potential clients, like, getting our name, reputation out there, really focusing on different marketing things. Like, the minute we stepped out, we pushed out a whole new website, pushed out a podcast of our own. Like, you know, the LinkedIn page is growing. Our YouTube is small, but growing. You know, the people that do watch it, they matter.
Christina:And so the word-of-mouth was growing. The revenue was growing. Like, you know, if I were to take a negative hindsight view on those wasted, like, four or five months, I would say I could have been doing this and we could have gotten five months ahead in in revenue growth and business growth. But what I did take away from that experience is, like, I've learned a lot of skills in, like, how to pitch, how to present, how to position, how to answer the hard questions. You know, that's when I got the most press and media ready is, I think, when I was talking to investors.
Christina:And so things like this, like, I don't get nervous for anymore. I don't have to prep. I just walk in, and I know I know my shit. And so the silver linings of all that is I gained some really great CEO skills, I think.
Nate:Well, and you shouldn't be nervous going
Chris:on this. You you realize that there's probably gonna be, like, a dozen people that are gonna hear this,
Nate:But they're all hardware people who probably know you. That's true. It's true. Yeah.
Christina:Yeah. Yeah. But I used to get nervous at anything. Right? Like, my first panel was at Tech Week in 2018, and I was like...
Christina:Like, now when I go on a panel, like, I really know how to position myself with the other, so I stand out but not overpower. But back then, like, I just... Man, I didn't know what to say. I was nervous. I prepped so hard in the car on the way there.
Christina:Like, I know.
Nate:It's it's something... It's a skill you develop, you know, through through practice. And I was gonna say you probably walked away with a much more refined vision for MakeLab and your role within MakeLab from that experience with investors.
Christina:Definitely. Definitely. Like, I definitely... I really bought into the vision because that's the time when we said it. Like, we wanna be accessible.
Christina:We wanna be local on demand. We don't wanna be a platform like the big guys. We wanna own our machines. We wanna do better with quality. We wanna provide a better client experience.
Christina:I was a client prior. Like, I get it. You know? We had the insights. And then I think during the pitching, you say it enough times with excitement.
Christina:You're... It's gonna have a positive effect on on what you think of it as well.
Nate:In the future, if presented with the opportunity, would you pursue venture investing? I guess it's the same question. Has the ambition and the growth trajectory that you envision changed after that experience, or were you more just kind of adapting to your current reality?
Christina:I don't think venture is fit for my business model. I've seen what it does to others. I've seen what it did to my industry. I value this business too much, and I don't want to risk that.
Chris:Why don't you think venture is the right? I'm I'm curious. And the reason I asked that question is I'm sure there are some other founders out there that are either in the service business or or hardware more broadly, and their dream is to raise venture. So I'm I'm wondering kind of what... What's the context for you, even though you probably got as close to anyone has without raising around.
Chris:Right?
Christina:I I... It's part like... I think service based businesses are really tough. You're at the mercy of your clients and how they feel. We're in the game of retention.
Christina:We're in the game of pleasing somebody. It's not easy. And when I have the time and the capacity to really listen to my clients and understand the needs, we build a better business. We build a better product. And I feel like once you start fundraising venture, you never stop, and that becomes your job as CEO.
Christina:And my options would be ignore the client and their needs or hire a CEO in my place. And I think the stark change going from one to the other was so impactful.
Nate:I I love that answer, by the way. Now, venture is not the right channel for investment. What are some other channels you're looking at? You'd mentioned angels.
Christina:I think once we get to a more mature state, I think growth equity is really interesting because we have hard assets. But there's also grants as well for us. We're in advanced manufacturing, and we don't plan on stopping. I mean, part of this whole mission of bringing manufacturing back to The US in some way. Totally.
Christina:And so there's a lot of opportunity outside of venture, I think, for us. Like, honestly, this market is still changing. It's still mature. I'm still figuring things out myself. And so I don't feel comfortable having that pressure of venture on my back while there's a lot of macro things happening that could really affect our business.
Christina:And so I think my industry, additive manufacturing, needs to stabilize a little bit before I feel really comfortable getting myself into all of that.
Nate:Again, yeah. If you work in tech, it definitely feels like there's a recession of some kind. Right? It definitely feels like there's been depression. And that's definitely true in service businesses as a result.
Nate:Have you been feeling that, or, like, you're seeing that in three printing service?
Christina:I was q four last year, and so that was interesting. Not q one this year, q two as well. I'm not feeling it. You know what's interesting? I've talked to other service bureaus in, like, three d printing services in my industry.
Christina:And while, you know, Velo, Shapeways,, like, all these companies are not doing so well. The stocks are falling. But it seems like the service bureaus, like, are really growing this year. I might see some months where clients are a little bit more careful with their cash. But one thing that we have is, like, a lot of different clients.
Christina:Like, we're we're not just a one client show. Like, what I learned from 2018
Nate:Right.
Christina:We have a lot. We have a lot of orders per month. And so unless it's a massive, like, takedown trend where every business is going out of business, We're pretty stabilized.
Nate:You got the risk spread.
Chris:Yeah. Is there a seasonality to the business?
Christina:There is. There is. And it's all about productivity, which is really interesting. Months where people take vacation tend to be lower productive months.
Chris:Is that a a leading or a lagging indicator? Right? So I imagine August is a big month for people going on vacation. So are people putting in their prints in end of July and they get them back, you know, when they return from vacation? Or is it How
Christina:about it, actually? So July is a terrible month for anyone. So when you're thinking about cash flow, it's something to really consider. Otherwise, it can really bite you in the ass for the remainder of the year. But August tends to be a heavy hitter for us, one of the biggest months.
Christina:And it's interesting because I think it's this rush of, oh my god. Oh, shit. The year's ending. I have to get my products out. My boss is on my ass.
Christina:My company's on my ass. We gotta push.
Chris:I find that so counterintuitive.
Christina:I know.
Nate:To to
Chris:to... Even to consumer electronics. Right? So... Oh, man.
Chris:Your data must be so fascinating. Here's a business opportunity. Package your data and sell it to hedge funds. So Interesting. That...
Chris:That's another arm of your business. Roll this up and sell it to, you know, a data broker. But for consumer electronics, for the holidays, I would expect that you're going into mass production over the summer so that you are hitting shelves in October. Right? So those designs have been three d printed well in advance, or or perhaps these are products that will be made for next year.
Chris:Right?
Christina:Yeah. The whole August thing really throws me for a loop because it's the month that college students start college. I mean, but maybe that's why people are not taking vacation in August because they're sending their kids off. Right? So maybe they're they're working.
Christina:If I had seven years of of straight data, I think I could make safer assumptions. But because COVID threw three years in for a loop and then the, you know, the tech market, it's hard to say. And so I'm going off of, like, you know, the more normalized years.
Chris:Yeah. Yeah. I'm curious. Do you tag any of your financials? Like, the type of company, the type of projects?
Christina:We do as much as we can. And so usually materials and technologies are a really great indicator of who's printing what. Like, who's going to use castable wax resin other than jewelry folks, you know? And so castable resin has a bit of a spike right before jewelry week or whatever. And so you see micro trends like that.
Christina:But all these industries vary so much and they have varied so much in the past four years, it's it's hard to draw concrete conclusions.
Chris:I'm just so fascinated because this is such a leading indicator for product release. Right? So this is all about rapid prototyping. And so what conclusions can you make about the future based on investment in product development?
Christina:Yeah. We tend to be a little early in the product development cycles. And so I would... I I don't know what the average length of time is, but we're we're early.
Nate:Is that startups? Is it students? Like, where are you seeing that uptick coming from? Like, who's who's consuming the services?
Christina:We see a mix of, like, the freelancers that work for the startups and the larger companies or the larger companies themselves and their in house design teams. But, yeah, like students don't make up too much of our revenue. On campus labs are becoming more and more accessible and easy to use. We still believe in developing relationships with students because they become our clients later on. So we do invest in them similar to how SolidWorks has done it in the past by installing their software in all college labs.
Christina:I mean, like, you know, we're a small company still. So within the New York region, we'll throw events, student nights, I guess you can say. We have a student discount where as long as you can prove you're a student, you get 25% off of all materials, which is quite good, but still doesn't compare to what's on campus most of the time. But we are there for when the labs get filled up or if they want something a little bit more quality. And then we recently just sponsored an Arizona State University ID Master's class.
Christina:We gave them a prompt based off of the VCJ material that we offer that's new, which can print in soft and rigid at the same time. So it's great for over molding. And the prompt was design health and wellness product. We'll print the final prototypes, and we'll feature you on our site and whatnot.
Chris:Oh, that's great.
Nate:Yeah. Super cool.
Christina:Yeah. That was that was fun. All that content is coming out probably July or August.
Chris:So I I guess for either those students or those educators out there, what's the best way to get ahold of you if they're interested in working with MakeLab?
Christina:I mean, our site's pretty easy to use. Any button that says talk to us comes straight to us via a form. We also have a students page. You can find it on our footer that tells you a lot about that student's program. So much comes through our inquiry form.
Christina:Like, someone wants to do a whole YouTube feature on us, and it all came through our inquiry form. So Cool. I always point people there because it's the easiest way to get in contact with us. Cool. Someone will answer you within twenty four hours or one business day.
Nate:Now that is impressive. How big is the team?
Christina:We have some part timers, but I think we're, like, nine to 12, 10 to 12.
Nate:Very cool.
Christina:And then we have interns as well.
Nate:Very cool. I know you're a super community oriented person. You've been involved with women in three d printing and IDSA. How has community building been like a growth strategy for you guys? And what role has community played in shaping makeup and really shaping you as a founder?
Christina:It keeps me grounded. You know? Like, I'll never let my ego get the best of me no matter what level of success we've hit or how much revenue we're doing or growth rates. Like, I think one thing about our brand and with manufacturing in general is, like, manufacturers should be your partners. Like, wouldn't it be weird if you visited a factory or a manufacturer and this...
Christina:Yeah. This is very ego ridden, you know, factory owner that was just, like, running things and yet all these people, doing the things and they were kind of terrified. Like, I think that's weird. I don't think that's the experience that my generation or Gen X and and below wants. And so we envisioned, like, a new spin on that type of relationship.
Christina:Like, I think my job is to listen, to gather, to understand, to see. And so what better way to do that than engage in a non sales y way with my potential clients? Like, I I hear all the trends, like, on the ground, and I'm an outgoing person, and so I enjoy it. And it's brand awareness. If I'm there, it's brand awareness.
Christina:Trust and credibility are really great. They say, like, you know, in startups, especially in service based businesses, you want people that will evangelize your business for you because they just really like your product or really like your like your service. Like an adviser told me, Christina, you're in the business of building relationships. You're not in the, quote unquote, thousands of clients room, but you're in, like, the the one hundreds of clients room or something like that. I'm really messing up this this whole analogy, but his point was relationships.
Christina:We do have thousands of clients, but you know what
Chris:I mean?
Nate:Yeah. No. No. I get you. I get you.
Christina:Like, you know, at surface level, there's no difference between us and someone else. Maybe convenience, like, you can get it faster. But I think the thing that makes people stay for us is the ability to be like, well, if shit hits the fan, MakeLab will figure out something and get creative and help me out. They're not gonna f me over. That's what you want, right, when someone's manufacturing your part on a deadline.
Christina:Like, you want that assurance.
Chris:Mhmm. What's your most memorable superhero story where MakeLab just bent over backwards and came through when the customer's ask was just so crazy that you were like, oh, sure. We'll do it. Like, yeah, this... We we got this.
Christina:You know, after Oath, we decided to not bend over backwards. So we found a really happy middle middle ground of how to protect ourselves. It's a fine line. Smart. Because if we start messing with our perceived value, our pricing gets affected, like our client relationships get affected.
Christina:And so we have our menu of services, and it's like, yeah, we can get creative in some ways, but it's very rare we'll bend over backwards. I mean, there's a fee for, like, picking up on the weekend because I live close, so I I I could do it for now. Mhmm. But it's not a promise forever. Yeah.
Christina:That's, like, the most.
Chris:Is there a story where you guys worked miracles? Like, I'm really curious if there's, like, a moment where, like, you can't buy this on the website, but because you believe in the partnership that it's like, we did this.
Christina:Yeah. I'm thinking about Dior. So the bigger the print, the the bigger the risk essentially as a rule. We did a a massive rush project where we had to change prints over the weekend for it, and it was all form three l prints. We stopped one in the middle of failing and then swapped it over.
Christina:We asked some help with, you know, our friends. You have extra resin because we just ran out because of this rush order, that sort of thing. And so there was that. Yeah.
Nate:You seem scarred. Yeah. I mean, it's not something
Christina:I like doing. Like, it's not something that we should be doing as a business. I don't think it adds points and reliability. Right? Because what's the trade off?
Christina:Pun pun intended. What's the trade off? If you're prioritizing this customer and not that, you're not being equitable to your clients. Exactly. So it's not something we do often.
Christina:Maybe once a quarter, we'll do something like that. Dior's pretty big in the fashion world. Right? It's not our core client, but the team at Dior now has a great experience with MakeLab.
Chris:Did that impact your other customers negatively?
Christina:Not that weekend. Alright.
Chris:Yeah.
Christina:Not that weekend. Yeah. It's an interesting question about capacity. Right? Like, do we have enough capacity for a swell?
Christina:Because it... There's swells and there's dips in the business in terms of volume. It's not always straight straight through and through.
Chris:What's the gold standard for capacity? I can't imagine a 100% is the gold standard. Yeah.
Christina:No. I don't think you wanna be consistently running at, like, 65 to 75 at any given moment because of those swells. It's just not smart.
Nate:You wanna be able to absorb that capacity, not have to pause things.
Chris:Yes. Yeah. Well, this is interesting. What percentage of your business is rushed? Because I imagine that swell allows you to have a premium priced service because you're turning around faster.
Chris:So I'm curious, like, for the trade off, that other 35%, that's not necessarily 35% of revenue. Right? That that 35% could be two or three x perhaps your revenue.
Christina:Yeah. And and sometimes those swells aren't in the speed. Sometimes it's in the quantity. And so there have been times during the busier months where we come close to being like, how are we gonna pull this off? And I think that's normal.
Christina:Right? Like, you don't wanna... If I was at a lower capacity most of the time, then my machines are sitting unutilized. So it's a it's a delicate dance, but that's when you kinda just have to get creative and and make it through because you don't wanna lose clients either.
Chris:Do you guys have any tools that you use to balance that?
Christina:I mean, Gantt charts are great. Planning software, scheduling software, ERPs, those are great.
Nate:Where do you see the... This is a big question. Where do you see the three d printing industry going over the next three years?
Christina:Yo. I think this year is the the make it or break it year for a lot of companies in this space. I've been saying it for, like, two years now, but now articles are being written about it. People are talking about it. You overinflate the industry, and you overpromise and underdeliver, there's going to be...
Christina:It's physics. Cool. Like, you can print this thing once. Can I print it 10 more times? Is the question now.
Chris:Mhmm.
Christina:Will it be the same 10 more times? Does it qualify? Like, what's the actual failure rate, like, after the entire post processing, not just when it comes out of the printer? And it's like in a client's hand, like, how many of those actually make it? Tell me.
Christina:Because it's not pretty. Mhmm. I think this whole industry has had a positioning problem. Even the companies in LinkedIn posts I see today, even the parts that they're printing to say, like, oh my gosh. I could do this.
Christina:Like, they're doing it for the clicks. They're doing it for the buzz. But how are people supposed to understand what they're getting themselves into, which is my my whole beef? And it was interesting. I was on a panel at this conference called additive manufacturing strategies put on by the 3dprint.com guys.
Christina:It's funny. We were in the green room just bonding a little bit and getting our chemistry together for the panel, And we all said the same thing. Like, we have to break the bad news to the clients that what they saw from x company on LinkedIn or YouTube or other trade show, you you cannot replicate. And that puts us in a really shitty position. And so I think there's gonna be, like, a reckoning of some sort.
Christina:A lot of companies are gonna be forced to be more honest Mhmm. In their marketing.
Nate:Didn't we go through this already with consumer printers? Wasn't this, a thing we already experienced in 2015?
Christina:You know, the first big wave was every household is gonna have a three d printer, and you're gonna print everything in your house, which, you know, just thinking about three d printing aside, do you want everything to be made out of plastic?
Nate:No. Think about the quality of those things. Like, how permanent are those things? As a hardware guy, I appreciate objects. Right?
Nate:And something that you just, like, print on demand has an impermanence to it.
Christina:Then the second narrative was every business is gonna have a printer, like, a metal printer too, not just the consumer stuff. Like, I get questions all the time. One of the main questions at the launch party was, do you print a metal? I'm like, my question back was, do you know the failure rate?
Nate:Yeah. Right.
Christina:Do you know the actual yields of some of these, like, easy to print metal parts?
Nate:Man.
Christina:And so I think there's gonna be quite some shedding happening this year. We're already starting to see it. Stock prices are are dropping. Press is bad altogether.
Nate:Metal laid off a bunch of people. Yeah. It's
Christina:Yeah. It's not good.
Nate:Yeah. We're seeing the same thing with driverless cars and, like, AI wearables, like embodied AI, right, with humane pen and rabbit. Like, it really does feel like some of the oxygen's being sucked out of the room, and we're on the other side of a hype cycle.
Christina:Yeah. It is what it is. Like, these hype cycles happen. Mhmm. But I think we're in a phase where people wanna see things work.
Nate:Yep. Right. Those promised flying cars, where are they?
Christina:You know? And so I think there's an interesting shift happening in the world. And it all has to do with, like, the availability of information as well. Like, social media plays a big part, and it's almost distracting. I see.
Christina:People listen to, instead of the big influencers, the micro influencers. They want a referral instead of just, you know, Kim K telling you you should buy this because it sounds cool. Like, people want something different.
Nate:Authenticity. I'm not sure. They don't wanna just feel like they're a they're a number. Yeah. On that note of, like, not just being a a number, this is gonna be a terrible segue.
Nate:But I know that you're, like, really big into equity, right, inclusion within the industry. Like, we all know that tech has a bit of a diversity problem.
Christina:Yeah.
Nate:So as an organizer with Hardware Meetup with me, I know in the past you did women in three d printing and then allies. Right? And and now we're doing Hardware Meetup, which doesn't really have a a focus on any one gender. We've had a number of conversations with female event organizers who have, like, pretty strong opinions about, like, women only events, men only events. And when I've tried to, like, say, like, let's do these things together, there's pushback there.
Nate:I'm curious as someone who's been on both sides how you kinda see that. Right? We're already trying to do something really, really difficult. Why would we be segmenting the community?
Christina:Mhmm. It's interesting because, like, I get it. I'm a minority. I'm an immigrant. You know, I'm still part of a community here in New York called First Gen.
Christina:It's all for startup founders who are also immigrants or first generation. And there is a level of camaraderie that I love about that community. There's, like, a mindset you grew up with that it's hard to find if you weren't raised in that environment. There's cultural things. There's adjustment.
Christina:Like, a lot of times you had to translate concepts, translate culture. And so in some regards, like, I really love those communities, but I believe in diversity, and that that goes two ways. And so I don't only put myself in those communities. And I think sometimes too, it depends on the tone of the event. Some of these communities are very, let's continue to talk about the problem and no solutions.
Christina:Let's not spur to action. Let's trauma bond. And that's what I don't like. I don't think that helps anybody. You know, it's quite victimizing.
Nate:Yeah.
Christina:I don't agree with that. I I I agree with empowerment. But, you know, I think people get those two confused often. Let's let's talk about, like, just how to do it. You know?
Nate:Yeah. Or talk about how to increase diversity and representation without segmenting. Right?
Christina:Yeah. It's a very fine line between something that's helpful and something that's not, I think. Yeah. The other thing that I saw, and this was quite an interesting thing, a lot of female focused community groups were not actually authentic, and they were a little toxic maybe. And I might misspeak, so I'm gonna go slow to make sure I find the right words.
Christina:But sometimes when there's an opportunity for power, you take that not because of equity and inclusion, but because it's your chance to become the one in power. And I've witnessed that, and it made me really mad. But I've seen it a few times. There were articles about groups doing this. Like, if you're using this cause in a negative way, that's where I'm like, no.
Chris:I'm not touching this.
Nate:He was excited about this topic initially, but
Chris:I guess not anymore. There's nothing good that can come from any of my opinions on this. So Yeah. It is.
Christina:Yeah. That's hilarious.
Nate:So we'll we'll wrap with some... Because I think we hit all the topics that I wanted to cover, and we have some, like, just fun conversations pieces that we can have. One topic we did not talk about, you and Manny are business partners and life partners
Christina:Oh, yeah.
Nate:Which is typically very difficult thing to do. How you made that work, and how do you kinda keep the two separate?
Christina:I think it's never a solid thing. You constantly have to work at it. Right? And I was talking to our friends, Rich and Roland, about this too who are twins running a business together, cofounding a business. You know how to fight, and you know how to how to resolve.
Christina:Like, being able to read each other, I think, is a really important thing in partnership in general. If you're life partners as well, if you're siblings, if you're family members, there's always a period of time where it's a little difficult. Right? And so you have to understand the boundaries, how they're different, how to separate, all this stuff. But
Chris:So how do you guys find space between your work partnership and your life partnership?
Christina:Manny makes music on the side. Oh, nice. He makes beats, and so he loves that. He's more of an introvert than I am. I I like my friends.
Christina:And so I like my friends, my dog. Like, we have our own hobbies and our own things that, like, give us relief. We don't have to make each other, like, 100% of each other's life. I think that's that's where it goes wrong. Mhmm.
Christina:Like, it's important in any relationship to maintain an individuality. It's a belief that Mandy and I both have. I love that.
Nate:And then we also make time for
Christina:each other. We we we made it a thing to do vacation. Like, well, one one, like, adventurous and one chill. You know? Mhmm.
Christina:One, like, cabin and chill and then one, like, exploration. Mhmm. And so, like, twice a year.
Nate:You're getting out. You're taking a break. Christina, if you were to write a book, what would you write about?
Christina:I don't know. I don't know if it would be... I thought about this before because, like, I have a very interesting personal journey too. Like, I was adopted from China, like, before it was a thing, and, like, growing up was not easy. And so there's a lot of, like, things I feel like I overcame.
Christina:So there's a personal aspect, but the business aspect, I think it would be the journey. Like, I like to never forget the really, really hard times because they keep you grounded. So... And people don't like to talk about those. And so I think when it's all said and done, I...
Christina:There's... It's therapeutic to air it all out.
Chris:What would the title be?
Christina:Don't do this.
Nate:Stop now. Yeah.
Christina:Stop stop while you're ahead.
Nate:Don't be an entrepreneur. No.
Christina:For some laughs. Yeah. You know? I I would go the humor route.
Nate:How do you how do you keep track of those hard moments? Like, do you journal or something?
Christina:I write it down. I have a... I use day one sometimes to capture the moments because they can do sound bites too, that's great. And so and snap photos too. But also, like, being that my husband is also my cofounder, like, I'm not alone.
Christina:Like, it's hard to forget when... If one forgets, the other will remember.
Nate:Yeah. Right. Right. Benefit of you both being there. Yeah.
Nate:Cool.
Chris:Yeah. I was gonna say, is there a hardware product that you wished existed?
Christina:Yes. I want smart glasses that helps me remember names.
Chris:Oh, I want that too.
Nate:Everyone wants it. I always talk about it. I'm like, when is this gonna happen? I just wanna put them on. I don't know.
Nate:I'm okay
Christina:with wearing... Sometimes wearing glasses.
Chris:Okay. So how how do you end up forgetting people's names?
Christina:I'm less audio focused, and I'm more visual focused. So I'll read someone's face, someone's body language. I'll get their vibe first. I'm like, you know, what's your story? What do you what do you what do you care about?
Christina:That's how I remember people because I always like hearing those stories. Like, what what motivates people is is a really interesting question.
Chris:For me, I'm part introvert, part extrovert. But when I'm ever being introduced to someone, I'm so self conscious about the, like, shake their hand. Is it a fist bump? Are they a hugger? That I'm literally overthinking it.
Chris:So when they're saying their name, it's like Yeah. And I have no clue who this person is. And I literally was just introduced to them. Like, first impression and anxiety.
Christina:Yeah. No. For me, I'm just really, like, looking into their eyeballs because
Chris:I avoid eye contact, so it's fine.
Nate:Christina is just, like, staring longingly into their eyes. It's like, what's going on? I don't know how I feel about this.
Christina:No. I I always... You know what it is? It's like, I go to so many events that I have to reserve my energy. Right?
Christina:And so I I really take on the active listening. And so I really try to tune in and be present with people. Sounds corny, but, like, ever since I started doing that, though, people really approached me differently too.
Nate:You're in the business of building relationships. Right? Make make sense to me.
Christina:Yeah. Yeah.
Nate:I used to get super anxious and, like, very hyperactive in events, and I'd get, like, super sweaty and just hope nobody touched my back. It was... Yeah. I'm not like that anymore. Yeah.
Nate:You're chill as a cucumber. Good. So to to wrap things up, Christina, what's next for MakeLab? I you know talked a little bit about Connecticut maybe being on the horizon, pushing the hub and spoke model. You got this new location.
Nate:But what's next for MakeLab, and what's next for Christina?
Christina:I think it's just client acquisition. I mean, when am I not, like, focusing on client acquisition? Acquisition? That's my job. That's the name of the game.
Christina:So I think it's always that. I think it's how do we build and scale without losing our quality of service and quality of parts. I think that's really important. Like, there's challenges in just scaling this type of business that I need to focus on.
Chris:So what is your least productive channel for customer acquisition?
Christina:Honestly, Google Ads is pretty unproductive. Yeah. No. PPC is is hard. Right?
Christina:Like, we still do it. It's minimally budgeted, but it's not something I'm gonna spend, like, Xometry's budget on. I don't think it's effective. People that know what they want will find you. It's it's not gonna be via an ad.
Christina:It's gonna be an awareness thing.
Chris:So are are you guys spending a lot of time on SEO trying to make sure that your page hits the keywords that your customers are looking for?
Christina:Yeah. SEO is the key. Instagram works too. Mean, all designers are on Instagram.
Nate:Is MakeLab hiring? Are there any, like, things that we can put out into the ether for listeners?
Christina:Not hiring. Definitely looking to get SF clients.
Chris:And where again is your location in SF?
Christina:55 Grace Street in SoMa, SF, right by Lyft.
Chris:Here's a real great area.
Nate:It actually is. It's... There's some gems to it.
Chris:I'm trying to plug your location, Nate. Come on.
Nate:I know. I know.
Christina:It's really central
Nate:It is.
Christina:To a tech scene.
Nate:Very central, easily accessible by public transit, near some of the best food in the city.
Christina:Costco.
Nate:Costco is so close. It's, like, right there.
Christina:Three gyms.
Chris:Yeah. So on a scale from one to getting shanked, how likely are you to get accosted going to make lab?
Christina:Yeah. Not See, I'm not in New York. I'm from Brooklyn. Like, everyone keeps themselves in SF. Like Yeah.
Christina:Unless you fuck with them, they're not fucking with you. But we're more likely to get shanked in New York.
Chris:Where can folks find you on the socials?
Christina:Oh, MakeLab three d. All one word. MakeLab was taken on a few channels except for TikTok. It's just MakeLab. And then our website is makelab.com.
Christina:A lot of cool stuff. Great photos.
Chris:Excellent. Nice.
Christina:Got a lead time calculator for anyone confused. Oh. We also have a great materials hub with filters.
Nate:Fantastic. Well, everybody should check that out and get some prints made.
Chris:Is there a coupon code for, friends of the pod?
Christina:Oh, yes. TRADEOFFS 15.
Chris:You hear that, guys? Now we'll see how many people listen. Nate, quick. Let's go print some things. So, Christine, thanks.
Chris:We have listeners.
Nate:I would do it.
Christina:I am not Nate@Gmail.com.
Nate:Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. Well, Christina, thank you so much for doing this.
Christina:Thanks for having me.
Chris:TRADEOFFS is hosted and produced by Chris Rill and Nate Padgett. Editing done by the illustrious Alex Michael. Our logo is designed by the talented pixel alchemist, Tanya Ashika. If you'd like to be a guest on the show, reach out to us on our website at tradeoffs.fm.
